Gymnastics Thread: Because We Gays Need It To Complete Our Sports Holy Trinity

[NUguy514]

So, a very nice Youtube user was kind enough to upload the complete apparatus finals for the women in Barcelona. I watched all of it and found that the judging shenanigans were not isolated to the women's all-around. Henrietta Ónodi was easily the best vaulter, yet she had to share the gold with Lavinia Miloşovici? No. I challenge anyone to watch those two women and explain that tie to me. Also, while Tatiana Lysenko owned the balance beam, Lu Li (who owned the uneven bars) had no business tying Shannon Miller, the latter of whom delivered a more difficult and solid routine, for the silver. I also think Miller deserved sole ownership of the bronze in floor; Cristina Bontaş's routine wasn't as difficult and wasn't appreciably cleaner, and Tatiana Gutsu was overscored in floor that entire Games (she always landed short on her first pass and took a huge, ugly step forward).

Speaking of Gutsu, I had had no real opinion on the all-around since I couldn't really remember it, but I now am Team Miller Was Robbed. I get that some of Gutsu's stuff was more difficult, but Gutsu had no business scoring more than a 9.9 on floor, which would have given Miller the gold. Also, Gutsu's vaults were comparatively overscored; Miller did score higher, but there should have been a bigger difference. Also, there's the fact that Gutsu didn't, you know, really qualify for the all-around.

Rachel, I know you'll have some thoughts on this!

Oh, and I've also been looking at the gymnastics medal breakdown of past Olympic Games, and the USSR's women's team won 14 of 15 individual medals, as well as the team gold, in 1960. The only medal they didn't win was gold on balance beam. That's...preeeeetty dominant.

[Culturegeek]

Can someone tell me if Elle Black is actually a top tier gymnast or did the USA just not send their best to the Pan-Am Games (and of course, no China/Japan/Russia/Romania doesn't hurt)

[NUguy514]

The 2000 women's all-around...

*sigh

I can't, you guys.

[Above the Title]

Answering questions in the order they were requested of me! And then posing some of my own!

Obviously I am in Team Miller Was Robbed. It's hard to compare gymnastics across eras because the scoring is so vastly different now but the discussion really starts and ends for me with the Unified Team lying to get Gutsu into the finals in the first place. That alone disqualifies her, as much as I did love her gymnastics back in the day. It was such a great primetime story too because they looked so much alike, and because it was expected to be a fight between a Unified gymnast and an American athlete, except that it was supposed to be Boguinskaya and Zmeskal. Fun fact! At the 1991 Worlds, the same three countries were represented on the podium, but it was a different athlete from each country. Zmeskal (US) won gold, Boguinskaya (Unified) won silver, and Cristina Bontas (Romania) won bronze. Hashtag team depth! I will rewatch this weekend (but I've rewatched many times before) and I'm always amazed at how high everyone's scores are. Today an execution (E) score of 9.0 is something for streamers and confetti. A 9.0 then would have sent you to the locker room crying.

Overall, I thought Gutsu was consistently overscored on floor with the huge ugly step on the double layout, but Miller's vault was also a 10.0. You know it was a 10.0. I know it was a 10.0.

Onodi was an amazing, amazing gymnast who suffered the misfortune of being from a country not known for world-class artistic gymnasts, and she suffered a bit for it.

The US didn't really send anyone from their top tier to the Pan Am Games. Marta Karolyi's tactic (which has been working obviously) is to save their energy for Worlds. When they have been as dominant as they have been, there is no reason to send them to lower tier competitions and tire them out. They have nothing to prove. We are far and away the favorites for the team competition and the AA competition in Rio. That said, Ellie Black is lovely and it's nice for her to win at home and to get some glory.

Did anyone see the US Classic last weekend? It's the precursor to Nationals and, OMG you guys, we could send two teams to the Olympics and win gold and silver. We're a year out and I have no idea who will be on the team, other than Biles obviously. She hasn't even gone to Rio yet and I think she's pretty firmly in the discussion for GOAT from the US, and if she dominates there, we may be hearing her name in the GOAT from any country ever discussion. Gabby Douglas and Aly Raisman both look spectacular. I am shocked, but thrilled, at how good they look a year out. Gabby finished second and is still upgrading her difficulty. In the senior elites, we already have a choice of Biles (unless she somehow gets a debilitating injury, she's a lock), Douglas, Raisman, Ross, Bailie Key, Maggie Nichols, Mykayla Skinner, Madison Kocian, and Ashton Locklear, and we will have Laurie Hernandez, Jazmyn Foberg, and Ragan Smith all age-eligible. And if Key and/or Smith make it, the great Kim Zmeskal returns to the Olympics, this time as a coach. Good golly Miss Molly!

The other big news on the gymternet is that Marta Karolyi is throwing in the towel after Rio. Rhonda Faehn, former coach of the NCAA Florida Gaters gymnastics team, was given a new position with USA Gymnastics so the thought is that she is the heir apparent. Fun fact - Faehn was the alternate on the much-maligned 1988 US Women's Olympic team. They were in bronze medal position and while one of the athletes was performing on bars, instead of moving the springboard away from the bars as the alternate did then, she stayed crouched being the springboard on the podium watching, afraid to disrupt her teammate's concentration. The score on bars was enough to clinch the bronze, but the East German team filed a grievance stating that a non-performing athlete on the podium was forbidden by the Code of Points. The resulting two-tenths deduction was enough for the East Germans to pull ahead and take the bronze. Rhonda Faehn!

And the other-other big news is that junior gymnast Emily Gaskins switched coaches and is now training with...Steve Nunno?!?! Steve, we hardly knew ye since you groomed Shannon Miller to be a champion, got fired from your NCAA job, and disappeared into oblivion. But I did catch a glimpse of him on the live feed of the juniors Classic competition on YT and he is still rocking that pornstache. Steve Nunno!

[NUguy514]

Is McKayla Maroney going for Rio? I still want her to get that vault gold! I assume, though, that if she doesn't go to Rio, Biles will be a heavy favorite in that event final. Do we have anyone who could contend for a medal on bars? If I'm not mistaken, we haven't won gold on vault and only tied for gold on uneven bars (and that was at the boycotted LA games). I think we'll get the vault gold in Rio; I wonder if we could get a bars gold. It's interesting, we actually scored first in bars as a team back in Athens; it's been our weakest event for a while. How times have changed.

I don't think it would be a tragedy to see Marta retire. I hope whoever replaces her continues the strong legacy we've built in women's gymnastics over the last decade.

I still can't get over the 2000 women's AA. How did they not just scrap the entire event and start over? WHYYYY do they refuse to give Andreea Raducan's gold back to her??? That really pisses me off.

Anna Pavlova should have won the bronze in the AA in Athens, and Ksenia Semenova should have won bronze in the AA in Beijing. Both were/are such beautiful gymnasts to watch.

Also, I was rewatching London, and two things: 1) McKayla Maroney's vault really might be the best piece of gymnastics I've ever seen. 2) The reason Gabby won the AA title and Komova didn't is because Gabby fought for it and Komova didn't. Look at how each of them performed on vault, and you'll see what I mean; Gabby fought like hell to stay inbounds and succeeded, while Komova took several steps off the mat when she could have taken only one or two. A few similar things happened on beam. That was the difference to me, and I think Gabby deserved to win the gold.

[Above the Title]

Maroney has openly wanted Rio since London (and competed, and won vault, at the 2013 Worlds) but she has just been hampered by injury after injury. At this point I would not be surprised if her body just can't take it. However, with Biles already a huge favorite for vault, Maroney may not factor in anyway. But, yes, her team final vault was the single greatest piece of gymnastics I have ever seen. Absolutely superhuman. And terribly underscored (not that it mattered), which goes to show the flaws in the system itself. You know a 10.0 execution score when you see it.

Bars is still our weakest event as a team. The issue right now will become whether they take a bars specialist (Kocian or Locklear, or even Brenna Dowell) instead of another all-arounder. We are a huge favorite for team gold, and a huge favorite for AA gold. And probably AA silver. Biles will be the favorite for vault and floor exercise. There is an argument to be made that we should take a bars specialist and wrap that up too, but as good as those ladies are (and they are good), I don't think they would win over China and Mustafina if she's healthy. The last Olympics bar finals was maybe the greatest meeting of gymnasts ever. That is one area where we are behind, but Rio will be ridiculous for the American ladies. Just ridiculous.

2000 is a travesty in every possible way. Even thinking about it makes me angry.

I did love little Yang Yilin in Beijing. I say little so she could have been 11, we may never know (and I am so pissed at the news today that China is getting the Olympics again after all these shenanigans!) but she was great when it counted. Seminova was a great gymnast too. As into the sport as I still am, the rule changes have dampened my enthusiasm a bit, moreso the limitations on athletes per country than anything else. This Olympics will be five per team, but the next one is down to four per team. That's barely a team. We are so dominant right now already, my heart breaks thinking of even less girls being able to qualify. I hate only two in the AA per country. I hate the tie breaks. I hate the landing rules.

Amen to Marta retiring. She revolutionized the system, it's been working, but she has always been tainted by the rather large shadow of her husband in the background. The number of coaches who have emerged in recent years who seem to have a really healthy attitude towards training girls who are still in high school has really also made the system work to our advantage. The sport has really gotten too difficult and grueling for the athletes to also be abused and not eating correctly. Liang Chow, Aimee Boorman, Kim Zmeskal...they seem to be doing it right, and all the girls seem happy and supportive of each other. You just watched 1992 - did you watch the team finals also? Like seven kids who had never met before. (And if you are a super nerd, Wendy Bruce from that team posted an interesting blog this week about having shame surrounding her bronze.) Faehn has an amazing rep so I think she will be great.

[NUguy514]

Wait, there will only be four gymnasts per team in Tokyo?? Are you serious?? That's...what the fuck??? What can possibly be the reason behind that?

I agree about the '92 team not having the warmest relationship, and it's (thankfully) much different now.

I really want Mac to get that vault gold. And yes, that was a 10.0 execution in London. The end.

Four? Really????

[Above the Title]

So it's a bit confusing. Yes, beginning with Tokyo, each team will have four athletes (and the format will be four up, three count for scores). But additionally, each country will have the ability to qualify up to two additional athletes as AA or events specialists. But they wouldn't perform in the team competition. This is different from before as well because previously, you could only apply individually to the AA or event finals if your country did not qualify to have a full team. This means theoretically the US can send six athletes but only four would medal if the team medals. I will link below an article trying to explain the rationale. They basically expanded the system by which individuals can apply but I still don't understand why it is dependent on making the team size smaller. I think it ultimately has to do with there being a limit on how many athletes can compete at the Olympics overall, and per country at the Olympics overall?

http://www.gymnastike.org/coverage/25202...b4QZor3bCQ

[Above the Title]

In defense of Culturish's long-standing fave:

http://www.thecouchgymnast.com/2015/08/0...na-gogean/

[Culturegeek]

LOL, I adored her as a preteen watching the Atlanta Games.