Baseball

[misplaced validity]

Yeah he has said he's 100% against homosexuality:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseba...-1.2135840
Of course, it begs the usual question of separating personal and professional for athletes and artists, and also in this case holding 1 player against a team.

[NUguy514]

I hold Ben Roethlisberger and Michael Vick against the Steelers and Ray Lewis against the Ravens, so I'm fine with holding Murphy against the Mets; the teams choose to employ criminals and bigots, so I don't see why anyone shouldn't hold that against a team if he/she so chooses.

[misplaced validity]

(10-25-2015 11:26 AM)NUguy514 Wrote:  I hold Ben Roethlisberger and Michael Vick against the Steelers and Ray Lewis against the Ravens, so I'm fine with holding Murphy against the Mets; the teams choose to employ criminals and bigots, so I don't see why anyone shouldn't hold that against a team if he/she so chooses.

I can't argue with that and have never been able to make up my mind about where I stand on the separation of artist and art (or athlete and sport).

I more so find the general discussion interesting. As in, I've seen people say we shouldn't hold the personal actions of artists against their art, yet then get upset with the NFL or whomever for not sanctioning an athlete who was abusive or something. And then I know people who won't watch films by certain people or listen to music by certain artists, but they root for athletes who have done the same things. Again, sometimes it just seems inconsistent. I say that separate from anyone here. And, really, has Murphy actually done anything homophobic? He's apparently against homosexuality for religious reasons, but how far does that extend?

[NUguy514]

(10-25-2015 12:44 PM)misplaced validity Wrote:  And, really, has Murphy actually done anything homophobic? He's apparently against homosexuality for religious reasons, but how far does that extend?

Isn't that enough?

[misplaced validity]

(10-25-2015 03:48 PM)NUguy514 Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 12:44 PM)misplaced validity Wrote:  And, really, has Murphy actually done anything homophobic? He's apparently against homosexuality for religious reasons, but how far does that extend?

Isn't that enough?

Not for me, no, but we've had a similar discussion before. Do I like his beliefs and is he going to be a favorite of mine? No. But if I dismiss him for his beliefs, it's ultimately no different than him dismissing me for mine.

[Culturegeek]

(10-25-2015 10:31 PM)misplaced validity Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 03:48 PM)NUguy514 Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 12:44 PM)misplaced validity Wrote:  And, really, has Murphy actually done anything homophobic? He's apparently against homosexuality for religious reasons, but how far does that extend?

Isn't that enough?

Not for me, no, but we've had a similar discussion before. Do I like his beliefs and is he going to be a favorite of mine? No. But if I dismiss him for his beliefs, it's ultimately no different than him dismissing me for mine.

For the purposes of this discussion, what does dismissing someone for their beliefs actually mean?

[Dr.ciski77]

It bears repeating apparently - being against homosexuality for religious reasons isn't a belief. It's a form of bigotry.

[Above the Title]

What could he "do" that would be perceived as a homophobic action, as opposed to "just" homophobic rhetoric? He made the comments above when questioned about the openly gay Billy Bean's visit to the Mets clubhouse. Bean was brought there by Mets management to promote greater GLBT tolerance in the Major Leagues. There will not be many (or any) chances for Murphy to be on a team with an openly gay player or coach, since we know the statistics about gay athletes.

I am with venom - this has been a really difficult postseason for Mets fans because our whole schtick is that we feel we never get a piece of the pie. Our team usually sucks year in and year out, and the Yankees get all the glory. So it's finally our turn, and not just by the skin of our teeth but with a truly dominating performance, and the majority of the credit has gone to the one guy on the team who made the above statements.

[misplaced validity]

(10-26-2015 12:46 AM)Above the Title Wrote:  What could he "do" that would be perceived as a homophobic action, as opposed to "just" homophobic rhetoric? He made the comments above when questioned about the openly gay Billy Bean's visit to the Mets clubhouse. Bean was brought there by Mets management to promote greater GLBT tolerance in the Major Leagues. There will not be many (or any) chances for Murphy to be on a team with an openly gay player or coach, since we know the statistics about gay athletes.

I have a friend who disagrees with homosexuality for religious reasons, but he is for gay marriage because he doesn't believe he should force his views on others (and believes in the separation of church and state). To me that is different from someone who bullies homosexuals, who makes offensive comments, etc. I don't know the extent of Murphy's beliefs and, more so, his actions. All I know is he said he disagrees with the lifestyle. And as I've said before, I think generalizing and dismissing all Christians is just as closed-minded as people who dismiss homosexuals. I don't know how people can expect others to be accepting when they themselves are not accepting. It's like people who cling to the right to free speech, but only when the speech is speech with which they agree. During the protests over cops shooting minorities, I saw people praising the free speech of the protests but then saying the protests done by the KKK should be shut down. Why? Either you believe in free speech, or you don't. I got a bit off tangent there, but my general point is many people seem to only be accepting/respectful when it's something with which they agree.

[Dr.ciski77]

But who is dismissing all Christians?