ATP/WTA 2?: Unchained Meldonium

[misplaced validity]

Chris Evert has never been a good commentator IMO. She's just way off in so much of what she says.

[misplaced validity]

Having said that, I do think a lot of Sabalenka's errors were due to Gauff's extraordinary defense (thee 3-2 deuce points in the 1st set are a prime example; Sabalenka made an error on one and a winner on one, but she was having to hit so many quality shots).

[misplaced validity]

Drama king Djokovic strikes again.

[misplaced validity]

This is actually kind of wild:
https://twitter.com/djokerprime/status/1...6946414731
I'm sure it's a shot Medvedev will regret for awhile.

[Dr.ciski77]

This passage from Rennae Stubbs' latest podcast episode was actually rather illuminating:

"I think Roger [Federer] and Rafa [Nadal] definitely personified wanting to win a lot but it's obsessive to Novak and you can see it. He wants to put the numbers up because he knows he's not going to be as popular worldwide as Roger and Rafa."

She's right. At the end of his career, that's all he's gonna have. Numbers.

[NUguy514]

(09-17-2023 10:22 AM)Dr.ciski77 Wrote:  This passage from Rennae Stubbs' latest podcast episode was actually rather illuminating:

"I think Roger [Federer] and Rafa [Nadal] definitely personified wanting to win a lot but it's obsessive to Novak and you can see it. He wants to put the numbers up because he knows he's not going to be as popular worldwide as Roger and Rafa."

She's right. At the end of his career, that's all he's gonna have. Numbers.

After the French Open, I posted the following on another board (I've slightly edited it for clarity) in response to a Djoker fan who tried to claim moral high ground for an earlier post I had made in jest:

Djoker fans cannot claim any moral high ground. The man has spent his career mocking his fellow tennis players, cheating in various ways on and off the court, defending abusive assholes like Justin Gimelstob, espousing various dangerous conspiracy theories, and promoting an authoritarian regime's bellicose claim to another country's territory and people. He has been as terrible an ambassador for the sport of tennis as Roger and Rafa, to whom he will inexorably be compared for the rest of his life, have been magnificent.

I suppose if there is some semblance of karma – which I do not believe in, particularly, but understand why others do – in the end, it's this: Djoker is only a hero in his own mind and among a small (but vocal) segment of tennis fandom, but he thinks he's the hero everywhere; that's his tragic flaw. The majority of tennis fans have seen how he's conducted himself time and time again and how these other two men have conducted themselves time and time again, assessed what we value about this sport we love, and have decided, "We're good. We have our heroes, and you are not among them." He has 23 Grand Slam titles, and likely will retire with a number higher than that, but because of how he conducted himself on the road to amassing those titles, they will always be the emblems of what he really wants and will never receive: public adoration.

[misplaced validity]

He won't be as beloved, but saying all he will have is numbers is also overly dismissive. A lot of people within the tennis community do considering him to be the GOAT because of the numbers. That may or may not fully satisfy Novaxx, but it's not nothing. It's more that it's a shame he has cultivated the standom he has (it's Trump-like) because it works against his goals, though I think he needs that victim/martyr mentality to thrive.

[Dr.ciski77]

(09-17-2023 05:31 PM)NUguy514 Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 10:22 AM)Dr.ciski77 Wrote:  This passage from Rennae Stubbs' latest podcast episode was actually rather illuminating:

"I think Roger [Federer] and Rafa [Nadal] definitely personified wanting to win a lot but it's obsessive to Novak and you can see it. He wants to put the numbers up because he knows he's not going to be as popular worldwide as Roger and Rafa."

She's right. At the end of his career, that's all he's gonna have. Numbers.

After the French Open, I posted the following on another board (I've slightly edited it for clarity) in response to a Djoker fan who tried to claim moral high ground for an earlier post I had made in jest:

Djoker fans cannot claim any moral high ground. The man has spent his career mocking his fellow tennis players, cheating in various ways on and off the court, defending abusive assholes like Justin Gimelstob, espousing various dangerous conspiracy theories, and promoting an authoritarian regime's bellicose claim to another country's territory and people. He has been as terrible an ambassador for the sport of tennis as Roger and Rafa, to whom he will inexorably be compared for the rest of his life, have been magnificent.

I suppose if there is some semblance of karma – which I do not believe in, particularly, but understand why others do – in the end, it's this: Djoker is only a hero in his own mind and among a small (but vocal) segment of tennis fandom, but he thinks he's the hero everywhere; that's his tragic flaw. The majority of tennis fans have seen how he's conducted himself time and time again and how these other two men have conducted themselves time and time again, assessed what we value about this sport we love, and have decided, "We're good. We have our heroes, and you are not among them." He has 23 Grand Slam titles, and likely will retire with a number higher than that, but because of how he conducted himself on the road to amassing those titles, they will always be the emblems of what he really wants and will never receive: public adoration.

And an Olympic gold. Tee-hee.

All jokes aside, I pretty much agree with everything. The best way I can put it is that he is just a bad person desperately trying to pass as good. He's been a disastrous ambassador for the sport, he's done nothing of note to promote or advance or popularize it (outside of that super-spreader exo, I guess), and he's constantly fighting against himself and his worst instincts (last but not least, mocking Shelton's celebration at the US Open, which admittedly drew an almost universal negative reaction and a really classy/brutal reply from Shelton's dad). Every time he speaks about how he's coming to accept that he's the bad guy of tennis or how he's fundamentally disliked (with the same PR talking points over and over) you can tell from his face that he is dying inside. All the greats, in a way or another, become the greats because they're able to cultivate some sort of mythos during their careers, and he was just never able to do that - not with his game, not with his personality, not with his rivalries, not with any meaningful contributions. There's almost a certain cosmic irony to how he rounded out the Big 3 busting his ass against both Federer and Nadal, including some really long and celebrated matches, only for the other two to go and have possibly the greatest rivarly in the history of the sport (including what is widely considered the greatest match of all time) and cultivate some sort of magical symbiotic relationship that just immortalized them for the rest of all time.

By the way - the picture of Federer and Nadal holding hands and crying together during Federer's retirement ceremony...I'm seriously gonna have that framed and put it on a wall somewhere.

[NUguy514]

(09-19-2023 10:59 PM)Dr.ciski77 Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 05:31 PM)NUguy514 Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 10:22 AM)Dr.ciski77 Wrote:  This passage from Rennae Stubbs' latest podcast episode was actually rather illuminating:

"I think Roger [Federer] and Rafa [Nadal] definitely personified wanting to win a lot but it's obsessive to Novak and you can see it. He wants to put the numbers up because he knows he's not going to be as popular worldwide as Roger and Rafa."

She's right. At the end of his career, that's all he's gonna have. Numbers.

After the French Open, I posted the following on another board (I've slightly edited it for clarity) in response to a Djoker fan who tried to claim moral high ground for an earlier post I had made in jest:

Djoker fans cannot claim any moral high ground. The man has spent his career mocking his fellow tennis players, cheating in various ways on and off the court, defending abusive assholes like Justin Gimelstob, espousing various dangerous conspiracy theories, and promoting an authoritarian regime's bellicose claim to another country's territory and people. He has been as terrible an ambassador for the sport of tennis as Roger and Rafa, to whom he will inexorably be compared for the rest of his life, have been magnificent.

I suppose if there is some semblance of karma – which I do not believe in, particularly, but understand why others do – in the end, it's this: Djoker is only a hero in his own mind and among a small (but vocal) segment of tennis fandom, but he thinks he's the hero everywhere; that's his tragic flaw. The majority of tennis fans have seen how he's conducted himself time and time again and how these other two men have conducted themselves time and time again, assessed what we value about this sport we love, and have decided, "We're good. We have our heroes, and you are not among them." He has 23 Grand Slam titles, and likely will retire with a number higher than that, but because of how he conducted himself on the road to amassing those titles, they will always be the emblems of what he really wants and will never receive: public adoration.

And an Olympic gold. Tee-hee.

All jokes aside, I pretty much agree with everything. The best way I can put it is that he is just a bad person desperately trying to pass as good. He's been a disastrous ambassador for the sport, he's done nothing of note to promote or advance or popularize it (outside of that super-spreader exo, I guess), and he's constantly fighting against himself and his worst instincts (last but not least, mocking Shelton's celebration at the US Open, which admittedly drew an almost universal negative reaction and a really classy/brutal reply from Shelton's dad). Every time he speaks about how he's coming to accept that he's the bad guy of tennis or how he's fundamentally disliked (with the same PR talking points over and over) you can tell from his face that he is dying inside. All the greats, in a way or another, become the greats because they're able to cultivate some sort of mythos during their careers, and he was just never able to do that - not with his game, not with his personality, not with his rivalries, not with any meaningful contributions. There's almost a certain cosmic irony to how he rounded out the Big 3 busting his ass against both Federer and Nadal, including some really long and celebrated matches, only for the other two to go and have possibly the greatest rivarly in the history of the sport (including what is widely considered the greatest match of all time) and cultivate some sort of magical symbiotic relationship that just immortalized them for the rest of all time.

By the way - the picture of Federer and Nadal holding hands and crying together during Federer's retirement ceremony...I'm seriously gonna have that framed and put it on a wall somewhere.

And an Olympic gold!

[venom1976]

OK...

"he man has spent his career mocking his fellow tennis players"
You mean the imitations he used to do? This always seemed in good fun...and certainly was entertaining.

"cheating in various ways on and off the court"
explain?

"defending abusive assholes like Justin Gimelstob"
Yup - not cool...but is there an example besides Gimelstob?

"espousing various dangerous conspiracy theories"
Yup - not cool.


"and promoting an authoritarian regime's bellicose claim to another country's territory and people."
Can you explain this one? (I don't doubt it, I just don't know)